In the gloomy darkness of the distant future they do not reward for good, and many believe that this should be in games.

Typically, developers reward players for making the right choice – from the point of view of morality – and make life easier for them, showering them with objects, increases to stats and other things, giving them an advantage in the game. This does not apply to the recently released CRPG Rogue Trader, as one disgruntled benefactor recently found out.

In his message on Steam forums, he explains that, despite the fact that he tries to be good – or as good as possible, considering that he, according to him, "Colonial fascist officer of the religious and fascist empire", – Rogue Trader does not value his efforts.

The game punishes you with negative consequences and even constant debuffs on the character if you are trying to be minimally good. She never shows the consequences of my decisions "good boy", unless these are bad consequences.

This caused a discussion about good and bad decisions in games and whether to adhere to high moral principles to get the best awards and easier experience. Judging by the comments, many believe that this should complicate the game.

Another user claims that receiving awards for the right actions – "A huge problem" in role -playing games, as this can lead to the fact that players will choose a good option for wrong reasons, adding that this simply does not reflect the real world:

In real life, in most cases, you do not get parades and magic swords for acting correctly, and this is not always easy.

And they are far from the only ones who think so. Another writes:

I think that a larger number of games should turn a good road into a difficult. Evil is selfish, it benefits itself and makes things easier. Good requires sacrifice, renouncing something for the sake of the common good.

Another user also believes that in games a good moral choice should be "more demanding from the point of view of mechanics", But in exchange for this "more useful from the point of view of the narrative".

Of course, there are such role -playing games in which you will not be allowed to become a good guy for free, for example, The Witcher 3, Vampyr and the 2016 role -playing game from Obsidian, but they are more an exception than the rule. Whether this trend will change in the future is still unknown.

I am an yoke with a laughter. The Imperium of mankind is not a fascist and not a Nazi state, but neo -feudal. And xenophobia, the purity of the blood of people, and so on, does not make the Imperium to fascist or Nazi, since according to the Laura of the Universe, this is all logically explained. Any state does not matter with what ideology that fell into the same framework in which the Imperium is the same in policy, since it is effective and ensures the survival of the entire human form. You can discuss as much as you like about abstract "correct and higher ideas", Only worth the pink world will faced a reality with the form of danger from orcs, genocles (plus their geeks, which they reproduce at the expense of other races), arrogant eldars (with any), destructive forces and others, all these misfortunes will force any state and society to produce against them total genocide and this is independent of what ideas they adhere to. The desire for survival will always be stronger than abstract moral and ideological principles.

Fascism is an open terrorist dictatorship of the most reactionary, most chauvinistic, most imperialist elements of financial capital.

That is, when the capitalist state, if necessary, discards its laws and steers directly. Laws in such a society are replaced by orders of chiefs, and if the order contradicts the law, they turn a blind eye to this.

For example, when the TCC in Ukraine without the right to detain citizens, he kidnaps them from the streets and takes them to the military registration and enlistment office in order to be sent to training in a day. And the police, instead of catching the abductors, helps them.

Or another example, when a person in a certain state "wrong" He spoke about the Qur’an. He is taken to Chechnya, and then the son of the head of the republic freely enters him into the cell and beats him there. What laws are regulated? This is properly any manifestations of fascism in these countries.

And the Imperium cannot be believed from this, there is literally on every planet a direct terrorist dictatorship of the governor. And the Emperor and his order are directly directly stealing the whole Imperium – above any law. Imperium is fascism in the absolute.

Fascism is an open terrorist dictatorship of the most reactionary, most chauvinistic, most imperialist elements of financial capital.

Lord, please, please lead Dimitrov here. This definition has nothing to give a person from the opposite camp, and not scientifically in addition.

That is, when the capitalist state, if necessary, discards its laws and steers directly. Laws in such a society are replaced by orders of chiefs, and if the order contradicts the law, they turn a blind eye to this.

Actually, any state discards its laws. The USSR also rejected its laws many times and steer directly. It does not depend on ideology. Any state lives for its existence and survival. And if you have to break your laws, then it will be so

And the Imperium cannot be believed from this, there is literally on every planet a direct terrorist dictatorship of the governor. And the Emperor and his order are directly directly stealing the whole Imperium – above any law. Imperium is fascism in the absolute.

No Imperium is not fascism. Extremely far -fetched and too perfect. Stalin also discarded his laws and put his decisions above them. Especially and who writes laws? As if the laws of the Imperium are partially drawn up by the emperor himself and the rest of the state structures (which also include governors).

There is an extreme mistake. All the planets of the Imperium are diverse and there are not all the governors there (hello from wild and feudal worlds). Imperium is a federal state, which consists of many people of people (kingdoms, republics, worlds of mechanicums, etc.D.) and applying your theory in relation to the Imperium is simply pointless.

Imperium is a simple neo -feudal state that cannot be used by an ideological composite.

Lord, please, please lead Dimitrov here. This definition has nothing to give a person from the opposite camp and not scientifically.

And give the definition of neo -feudalism your. After all, feudalism is when the feudal lord belongs to the Earth on which it is fixed by people of its processing. This was called serfdom, such a person cannot go anywhere and must give part of the harvest to the feudal lord. They are no longer slaves, but not free, that’s what feudalism is. And in the Imperium, citizens freely move between the planets.

Actually, any state discards its laws. The USSR also rejected its laws many times and steer directly.

But they call fascism when he does the capitalist state. In the case of the USSR, it was called "Military communism" And it was not many times. If all the same, there are examples please.

Especially and who writes laws? As if the laws of the Imperium are partially drawn up by the emperor himself and the rest of the state structures (which also include governors

So this is the essence. For example, in a regular cap of the state, a number of clearly spelled out measures are applied to the criminal and it can read the law to clearly define what and how to continue, building his own behavior from this. Well, that is, you violated – the policemen are caught (strictly according to the law on the police), the investigation investigates and refers the case to the court (strictly by the laws that regulate this process), and the court determines the guilty or not even if it is guilty, then clearly by the law implies a punishment defined by law for this offense. And the prosecutor’s office monitors that all these institutions work clearly according to the law and punishes them in case. Well, that is, everything works according to certain rules and if you are guided by them (well, or your lawyer), you can protect yourself by using them as well as using them.

And with fascism – the boss issued a decree, and the Nazis ran after you. The lawyer will not do anything, because it does not happen within the framework of the law, it is, as it were, from the side, you will not be any vessels (except ostentatious ones), they will want to put it on the basement, they will want to bury in the forest. And the policemen even seeing it will not help you, they will help the fascists instill you. You can not even pay attention to the laws in such a system, because if you take you, laws will stop working for you at the same moment. This is fascism, and this is the Imperium and is.

Imperium is a federal state, which consists of many people of people (kingdoms, republics, worlds of mechanicums, etc.D.) and applying your theory in relation to the Imperium is simply pointless.

As they are called there, no role plays, the essence is important. You can call an apple to a cow but a cow from this it will not become. Here, of course, the amateurism of writers, who in economic formations are often not a snout, and they wove that, describing one and calling it to the other, is manifested.

For some reason "Dimitrova nonsense" turned out to be the most accurate definition.

And what is its accuracy? Instead of a word, fascism can put socialism or communism. Will also be scientifically then.

Accuracy determination of some ideology proceeds from the subjective beliefs of a person. If you are a person of left beliefs, I am not surprised, well, this is your right. Only at the same time, it should be understood that this definition is not the truth of the last instance and even more so given by a person who was an opponent of this ideology and in his personal interests it was to discredit it.

"Colonial fascist officer of the religious and fascist empire" – And it is immediately clear that Twitter snowflake wrote it, and what decisions of the person made. Saved a couple of hundred and condemn the eternal torment of the soul of billions and it is still unknown how much, it is now under his side by the demonic world, which is not to exterminate any weapons. This is for example.

Such people rarely use the brain as intended.

The problem of such people that they live in a very clamped paradigm and do not even imagine that their dogmas are not universal.

You might think that by killing a cultist you do not send him to eternal torment.

He will not harm others the dead. Alive, he will spread the influence of chaos, increasing the number of souls, which will come to the four.

The inhabitants of Minoris will still die from a minute!

Will become heretics, TK influence of chaos spread throughout the planet. When this happens, the planet will turn into a demonic world. As a result, she and everyone who is there can destroy, because the warp will not let this be done. The only way to save everyone is to kill, until the chaos completely absorbed everything and has changed.

This is a long -standing problem of games of games in general, and role -playing games or games with a choice of actions in particular, since everyone knows what kind of "correct" You will be awarded the choice, and for "wrong" punish. The developers want the player to move in a certain direction in order not to complicate his life with the elaboration of alternatives, so they do so that either "wrong" The choice leads to a quick gamer, or the choice really does not affect anything, a coma as to get a buns for "correct" (usually in style "good boy") option.

On the other hand, few people will like it if the choice made by nh hours ago leads to a bad end, and you will have to go through the game from the beginning. Especially if the consequences of the choice at that moment are completely not obvious, or are not at all associated with any normal logic.

I think it all depends on the specific game, and the world in which its action takes place.One option will be appropriate in one game, in another or two.

I had a different problem in my game. I wanted to play the dogma and poked the options for the sciences between the matter. There are more options for the APA of the Schismatus in the game, from the long branches of dialogue with only one shim to buildings and in order to update the dogma you need to try very hard.

about morality in general – here is a discussion issue. For example, I saved Mirnyak with an infected heresy of the planet, as a result, this my little one sucked on my ship. Since I saved them, the game was supposed to praise me? Here the world of the game is already determining this

The fact of the matter is that there is simply "poke" will not roll, no matter fanatic, autistic or chaosit. It is important to evaluate from the point of view of various factors. For example, with the help of attention, you determine that the interlocutor "Well, generally straight sincere and honest eyes honest" But one partner shouts that he is lying"Because I feel", The second says "all -glass, I have known him for a long time he is a clear kid", And in your pocket lies a record from his diary, where he tortured kittens.

I personally make elections with the goal of getting this or that result, without stroking a worldview, I want to Lazgan more chaos-rays to him more and send him to the children’s nanny, I will more order and send it to the Galle to work as a cleaner (and that cleanliness and order), or generally simple or first try to execute then, just so as not to catch the consequences.

And the fanatic/chaos/autistic posts in some cases in general, in my opinion, were put from the Balda

There is such. I choose to a greater extent from the decisions that I want to make, the AP of the worldview itself is rather a secondary thing and reflects the moral scale of the Persian. But again, if you do not follow a certain line, this leads to the fact that then the options for answers with a worldview are blocked. I’m right now on chapter 4 and stupidly can’t decide what to do with a footphone, since I have all the options for the worldview are broken from a too small scale. I need 3 levels of worldview, and I have a dogma and shism of the second lvl

In fact, there is simply a balance here – evil receives nishtyaki at once, and the good receives nishtyaki by an unobvious way, after a chain of events, as if in the form of karma, it would be logical and interesting.

Passed for a schismatics) They executed in the epilogue for heresy)

He went beyond the sciences, Nomos defended from the attacks of the Imperium and a new state was formed =)

A rather strange statement, because in the game there are already 1 case when a good option is punishable. And he is at the very beginning.

I still have no impression that the choice "to be good" or "be bad" It is somehow particularly encouraged or punished with developers: any option has its disadvantages and bonuses. Conditionally, as with Raikad Minoris: for sensitivity and sentimentality, you can get -5 to willpower (not fatally), but +3 factors arrived for saving the reactor, plus in the future – re -educated Heinricks at the side, even if at first he pretends that he was not I like your philanthropy. The consequences, as in life, are difficult to calculate in advance, and sometimes negativity is not even a direct consequence of the choice – it just happens and everything. The hero’s evil actions are reproaches, everyone who is not lazy goes on a good car – they will make you risk yourself and a team, then the profit factor will not increase, then the supplies will be taken away. But the game, like the whole Varhammer world, does not at all operate with unambiguous concepts of good and evil, "Correct" And "good" actions. The emphasis is rather on wagging and worldview: and the dogmas believe that they confront world entropy and make difficult decisions for the good and for the sake of humanity and heretics in someone’s understanding – romantic revolutionaries or chaos against order, but definitely not unambiguous evil, t.To. There is no unequivocal good that can be opposed to them, and shimatics/iconoclasts, although they are trying to be "Golden middle", but they do not always make optimal or even just a good choice. This choice is often also inconsistent: for example, to burn a dozen lobotomed workers, so that they do not suffer and get confused underfoot – with joy, burn the conditional millions of population, which otherwise a gloomy fate awaits – well, there is no. Is it really the difference in quantity? But if the player makes a choice not in accordance with the game worldview or his own beliefs, does not receive moral satisfaction from the choice, is not ready to sacrifice and accept consequences, but chooses "Correct" From the point of view of generally accepted morality, the options and the only praise and buns wanting for this – then what kind of play? Rather, it looks like an attempt to adapt either to the selfish and infantile position of a person who grew up on good children’s fairy tales and suddenly encountered reality, where to be a stepmother or a rich daughter is always more profitable than Cinderella than Cinderella. Well, that is – hey, I did everything according to the rules where my prince is my millions and universal love? Like small. True, on the other hand, people are not much different from experimental animals, they also need encouragement, some moral ("You have established everything, helped everyone, you are good") or material reinforcement, so that they continue to press the buttons, and not be disappointed and do not begin to shake the cage. And this is the problem of developers, how and how they will stimulate players, so that the buttons are regularly pressed until the finals.

There was a dull game Vampyre, if you get a bloodsuit, you get nishtyaki, you try to slowly slow down and the game becomes more complicated, since the enemies do not become weaker. In principle, this is the only curious plus of games.

To be honest, I respect Sovokotov much more than Lorianov, activist, Betzdianov and other Western Shusher for relevant and interesting elections in games. What is here, what is in the PasFainers.Plus interesting pumping of characters.In general, I want to play and replay in their games, unlike the same Western chewing gum..

In fact, this is completely wrong. I went through the game to the end, I walked along the path of the schismatic, that is, the most "Good" character, and even gathered all companions (except secret ones). There is no Roque Trader "Bad" or "Good" choice. There is just a choice that leads to one or another results. And, which is reflected in the final screensaver. We can be friends with one free merchant, you can kill him, or leave him to die. They will write to you. The author probably has in mind the choice at the very beginning, to save (whom) – to blow up all. Save – at the end, refugees will create a super -duper ship on the nucleus. Save the Nobilees – the planet will become the center of the slave trade (rich pins can not work with handles). Yes, for this choice you can get a debaf that is removed. wound. Your Persian should deprive of consciousness. Then on the ship – the healers will be put on their feet, no negative consequences.

The charm of the game is that you need to not choose, but to play your character. It is clear that if you grew up in slums, then your best friends and smugglers, and there are different rich ones – grease for bayonets. And if an aristocrat, then the good flogging of officers on the team bridge will only add to them the fighting spirit. Yes, and while the game, no matter how hard, still will not let you get the maximum in the selected branch.

It should be like this:
For the good in the distant perspective, the reward is greater. But not now and not clearly.
For evil less, but material and right now.

Not in Vaha, here the concepts of good and evil are quite seriously different))

I agree on Vaha.

If you throw off all nonsense, and look at the question from a real point of view, then I think it makes no sense to argue that the computer game in the modern world occupies a huge niche in the life of children and adolescents and largely affect the formation of their psyche and attitude to life. I would like or not, but if in games they begin to encourage bad deeds or facilitate the passage, but for good things, on the contrary, complicate..it will be like with Pavlov’s dog soon, albeit partially, but this will affect the psyche and will unconsciously affect the act in life.

Now the child would play CRPG by Warhammer.

Just here the question is philosophical and it all depends on how a person can abstract between real life and virtual or not. If not, it is better not to abuse computer games (if this is about this perplexing user)

Then in most cases they will choose bad actions, for the sake of rewards. Good deeds must reward, for example, settlers of settlements thanked that they were saved and gave gifts to the form of awards, clothes that are given for good acts.

If you look at the question from a real point of view, then the reward should be given logical consequences, and not just different buns. Well, you saved the heretic, and then what? He will become a monster, chaos will receive his soul, and he will kill a lot of your crew.
The game should not reward for simple being with good / bad, it should still teach to think.

In real life, one can also observe the reverse situation when the child who is used to what he is "Good deed" Give "reward", begins to behave as inadequate when this does not happen in reality. And in games too, in general.

Good and good deeds are for wimpers! In the real world for "good" do not pay, only strong and cunning survive there.

And these wise men from game forums again discuss about "morality" And "high ideals". Ugh, tired of listening to their complaints! A real player must fuse through evil and pass any trials for the sake of victory.

And these good people want to get everything as a gift – so that they can easily and simply go through the game at the expense "good deeds". Yes, in real life, these good deeds would not bring anywhere!

They don’t like the pungent – let them play some farm simulators. There they are their own "Good" elections as many cows to feed and flowers will be watered. And in these RPGs, a place is only for real men who are ready to climb the risk for the sake of winning!

All these forum suckers: don’t like it – don’t play! You have too many rules for this and "Ideals". Let real gamers enjoy hardcore!